Eretz Yisrael Time

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Saturday, March 25, 2006
[Parts of this post got erased, so I am rewriting it from memory. It may look slightly different from before.]

I assume that Ze’ev is a bit upset at JoeSettler’s endorsement of Baruch Marzel for the upcoming elections though it is nothing personal, but the fact is that there were two very revealing articles in this weekend’s paper that say a lot about the candidates, personalities, and parties involved and just confirms my decision.

To begin with, HaMakom, a new regional paper, printed an interview with NRP’s Zevulun Orlev.

Confirming
Ze’ev’s comments in my previous post, Orlev admits that Marzel was willing to join the National Union’s union for the purpose of unifying the Right. Orlev claims that he had no role in the decision to reject Marzel, and not only should Marzel renounce his candidacy in the upcoming elections, but "Marzel is disqualified ("פסול" in Hebrew) as a human being in [Orlev’s] eyes" !!!

I think this says a lot more about Orlev than it does Marzel.

[The original post got erased from here on]
BaSheva ran an interview with Benny Elon. Benny stated that "he doesn't denigrate anyone. It could very well be that Marzel would bring a new spirit into the Knesset, but you have to understand that he doesn't have any chance to pass the threshold. If you could publicly prove that he [Marzel] has the possibility to pass the threshold, it would better to help him rather than damage the entire [Right-wing] camp. But that isn’t the situation…”


Marzel party just completed a Commitment Campaign”, 57,734 people have committed themselves to voting Marzel.

That is pretty close to passing the threshold.

Benny Elon – Marzel is counting on you now. You've said you would do what is best for the camp. Orlev is proving to be a drag on the NU and the Right, don’t let the Right down when it comes to Marzel.


16 comments:

Joe Settler said...

In answer to Ze'ev's question, "If Marzel would have been in the last Knesset, what if anything would have been different?", Benny Elon himself answers, "Marzel would bring a new spirit into the Knesset."

(The exact phrase in Hebrew was "Ruach Chadasha".)

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Orlev's comment reminds me of:

"הפוסל במומו פוסל"

Instead of giving me a good reason to vote for him, all he can do is throw mud at Marzel?

It's one thing to argue based on "will he get enough votes to pass the minimum percentage limit" -- yet to say he is disqualified as a human being?

And this guy is #2 on the list after Elon?

Scary.

Elchonon said...

yo see i'm sick of these low lifes!
"he wont pass so vote for me" that just makes people NOT vote! i bet orelev would rather you not vote then vote marzel. if everyone would just shut up and vote baruch he'd get 100,000 votes!! i can bet they will steal some votes (they did last election) but you cant steal THAT many..

Ze'ev said...

Joe, the lawyer who certified the # of people who registed for "I'm planning on voting for MarzeL' campagin (Baruch ben Yosef) said that it shouldn't be taken so seriously.

He said that there is no real way of knowing if all of the people who registered will truly vote for Marzel - or what their motivations for registering were (or if they are even eligible to vote).

I agree with Benny, as I mnetioned in my latest post - I have nothing against Marzel per se, but if you look at the numbers, he missed by 11,000 votes last time around, running with Kleiner when the threshold was lower - this time, he needs 70,000 votes, with Kleiner running seperatley.

Frankly, I do not beleive that the right has the luxury of having potentially 100,000 votes wasted between Herut and Hazit with netiehr getting in (totalling 3-4 Knesset seats for established parties on the right).

Oslo passed bya single vote, who knows where 3-4 seats / votes will be crucial during then ext Knesset, and heaven Forbid if we don't have them b/c they were wasted on parties that didn't get in.

Ze'ev said...

As for Orlev, I don't understand why everyone focuses on him so much. Most people in the Mfdal are fed up with him.

He is one person on the list. he has one vote.

The Mafdal will be neutralized for at least then ext two years by there being an assured majority of NU MK's in the Knesset vs. NRP MK's.

Orlev can talk all he wants, but at this point, he can't do much more than that.

He should not be the reason for someone to not vote for NU-NRP, b/c he has little power on the joint list.

If you agree with the NU ideology, then vote NU - Orlev is a minority member on the list, and he will have no choice but to follow the NU lead.

Ze'ev said...

Lastly, Joe, I'm not upset with you.

I can't say I agree with your deicsion to endorse Marzel - for many reasons, but your heart is certainly in the right place.

We are working to achieve the same goal, we just see different ways of getting there.

Ze'ev said...

One more last thing:

Joe, as this is your blog you certainly have creative liscence in choosing the titles of your blog posts, but to imply that Benny Elon endorses Marzel is a stretch...

Why focus on one part of the article where you are taking Benny Elon's words and using them in a way which he clearly did not intend?

Here is the link to the entire article (in Hebrew) - perhaps some of your readers will be interested in seeing what benny Elon really has to say about the upcoming elections and who to vote for:

http://www.inn.co.il/newspaper.php?id=5600

Joe Settler said...

Excellent, I was looking for the link to the article. I'll add it in. If you know where the Makom article can be found online too, that would be good.

I wanted a nice attention grabbing headline, which I got. I'm also glad you're not angry.


The way various NU people describe the deal they negotiated with Orlev/NRP, you'd think the NU was negotiating with Arafat. They know he wants to break the deal to the NU’s detriment, and the NU just wants to try to find a way to lock him into his word for as long as possible.

But let's be honest. What can the NU do if Orlev (and NRP), the day after the elections (instead of in 2 years) votes differently than what they agreed?

You really can’t take their seats away. We're stuck. (Unless they stuck some amazing clause in there which I can’t imagine they did).


One point of the post is to show how much a mench Benny is as opposed to Orlev, who will not be just one vote, but a continuous thorn in the side and a fifth column to boot.

We all focus on Orlev because he runs the NRP and he is the one that decided not to exit until he really no longer had a political choice. He is the one making the noise and he is the fifth column that will take his 4 NRP seats and disrupt the right to advance his own interests in getting a government seat. Two years (or 2 days) is not so far away.


Maybe if the NU people didn’t have to keep emphasizing that they’ve structured the deal to lock up the NRP’s options, as opposed to perhaps the NRP saying that they share the same interests and wouldn’t want to go their separate ways, I would be much less concerned, but even the NU knows that the NRP is doing this to save what they sit on and they can’t be trusted and those seats will be lost in 2 years.

Joe Settler said...

I also want to add that the Right did have the majority in the last elections. That didn't matter in the end.

But consider this.

You are basing your ability to build and maintain a right-wing bloc by relying on the Shastitutes and Aguda/Degel. Is there really enough money in the coffers and positions at the table to make that happen for 4 years?

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Zeev: While Orlev may "only" be #2 on the the NU-NRP list, and as you say, a "minority" voice, being #2 ALSO means that he would be party leader if G-d forbid Rav Benny had to temporarily step down.

If that happens, I would give the NU-NRP about 2 minutes before falling apart.

Joe Settler said...

Jameel,

I've been wondering about that too and asked a few people without getting any answer. I would hope that the next man in line would come from within the party, not the Union, so that #2 in Moledet (not #2 in the NU) would replace Benny (C'vS).

But I haven't received any confirmation from anyone about that.

Ze'ev said...

Joe, to answer your 1st question, if the Mafdal bolts after the elections (before the 2 years) the NU couldn't stop them, but...

The Mafdal would lose every penny coming to them.

After elections, every party gets X amount of NIS based on how many MK's are elected. If Mafdal leaves before the two years are up, they would be forfeiting all of their funding to the NU - something which they will definitley not be iwlling ot do.

I am confident that they will not bolt before the 2 years are up.

Furthermore, aside from Orlev, Mfadal has some pretty decent people in it.

Yahalom and Finkelstein were the two most active MK's in passing legislation i nthe last Knesset -t the vast majority on social issues (children, disabled, elderly, education, road safety, wmens rights), and Nissan Slomianski, who if I am not mistaken, is pretty by Mafdal standards on Eretz Yisrael issues.

Take those 3, with a bunch of NUM MK's and we can accomplish some good things.

Jameel @ The Muqata said...

http://israelpolitic.jsn-server1.com/

Joe Settler said...

If anyone has my original post in their cache if you could send it to me so I caould repost it.

Thanks.

Joe Settler said...

Marzel responds to his critics:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=100830

Anonymous said...

I say briefly: Best! Useful information. Good job guys.
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