Monday, January 23, 2006
1/23/2006 02:16:00 AM | 
Posted by
JoeSettler
A rather obnoxious commentor made some remarks on an earlier post calling me Racist and Liar!
I've decided to answer him in the main section, and then let you, the readers, decide whether he should be banned in the future for such rude and antisocial behavior.
1) There are a number of interrelated issues here.
1A) The basic rights of Jew to own/cultivate land in Judea/Samaria is being stripped away (with ease).
The ownership of the land in the Hevron Market is unquestionably Jewish as has been so for hundreds of years, and the group that administers the land in question for the owners expressly gave permission for the Jews to live there.
Yet the Jews are being expelled.
I guess the inalienable right of a Jew to own or enter his own land isn’t important to you.
(That's racist.)
1B) The Rule of Law is not being applied equally but rather quite selectively as you can see here and here.
There are currently over 7000 standing destruction orders on illegal Arab construction in Judea/Samaria, that have not been and are not being enforced.
Again, in the name of the Rule of Law, why is Peace Now (or you) not demanding equal enforcement (or any enforcement for that matter)?
(That's racist.)
1C) On the legal side, the answer to that is that in Judea/Samaria there is no Rule of Law or even an assumption of jurisdiction. The government has purposely left the law vague and undefined for political reasons.
As you can see, the HCJ itself claims it really doesn’t has the right to apply Israeli law in the territories, but rather it falls solely under the military administration (which normally plays a significant role along with various civil authorities in deciding what constitutes a legal settlement), but it then decides that it has the right to selectively enforce the law on Israelis, but apparently only so far as to take those rights away for “political or security” benefits.
It is a very disconcerting document that clearly shows how convoluted, contradictory, and confused our Left-leaning Judiciary can choose to be when it deliberates in order to come up with the political decision it already decided on before the hearing.
On the other hand, it is a quite wonderful example of typical Israeli Judicial Activism overstepping its bounds (though due to the vacuum the govenment left behind).
1D) It is a rather wide claim to state that a supposedly illegal settlement affects society as a whole, unless you already subscribe to the nonsense that “settlements are obstacles to peace”, because that basically means that Jews living on Jewish owned land are an obstacle to peace - and that is racist.
Are you a racist?
2)
2A) Other than what Israel has created since Oslo, there never was a Palestinian Government/Entity in the Middle East to make it Palestinian Sovereign Land (except perhaps for occupied Jordan). Nor is it occupied according to the Geneva convention (despite the HJC's decisive turn-around in order to implement the disengagement) as there was no former high sovereign power to take occupancy from. This has simply become a politicized/propaganda term. The land is at best disputed, and even that is a fair question.
2b) And, as point of fact, as the Sovereign nation controlling Judea and Samaria, except for Area A, is still Israel. That would make it Jewish controlled territory. (Israel=The Jewish State).
2C) And finally, if any final or temporary borders are ever established, facts on the ground on both sides will decide ultimate sovereignty – so Jews holding onto the land does and will make it Jewish land.
3)
3A) Now let’s see. Between 30,000-50,000 cars are stolen in Israel annually.
Some 90% of those vehicles end up in the Palestinian Authority – including into the hands of senior members of the Palestinian government.
So if in the past 10 years, some 300,000 stolen cars entered the PA, and the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics claims that there are only 122,000 registered (which does not mean they weren’t stolen) vehicles in the PA. That would mean that approximately 150%-250% of the cars being driven around in the PA are stolen.
So yes, at the flip of a coin (either side), it is highly likely that the truck used to drag around the tortured body of the accused Palestinian collaborator was stolen.
Does that make me a racist? I’m not quite clear what the connection is.
3B) With regard to investigating Peace Now’s motivations, you are accusing me of lying.
If I were rude, I'd simply tell you to go to hell.
But, unfortunately for you, I did check their motivations and intentions (someone else asked as I sat there listening), and their lawyer was quite proud to declare them.
Anyone that is familiar with Peace Now (which is nearly everyone in Israel, but I guess not ignoramuses in Illinois) would recognize that that my statement was quite accurate.
So you are also an ignorant liar.
3C) And finally, racist?
I recognize that we the Jewish Nation are currently at war with much of the Arab/Islamic Nation: politically, ideologically, spiritually, physically and most particularly over our land.
That is recognition of fact of the state of war that we are in, not racism.
It is in fact the official position of the Israeli government.
You chose to throw around the term Racist quite easily.
You've already shown that you think like a racist when it comes to Jewish rights.
You must be projecting.
Go learn your facts and improve your behavior before you even think of posting here again.
(For everyone else, I particularly recommend you read both JerusalemCop and Robert's remarks in the comment section below)
I've decided to answer him in the main section, and then let you, the readers, decide whether he should be banned in the future for such rude and antisocial behavior.
1) There are a number of interrelated issues here.
1A) The basic rights of Jew to own/cultivate land in Judea/Samaria is being stripped away (with ease).
The ownership of the land in the Hevron Market is unquestionably Jewish as has been so for hundreds of years, and the group that administers the land in question for the owners expressly gave permission for the Jews to live there.
Yet the Jews are being expelled.
I guess the inalienable right of a Jew to own or enter his own land isn’t important to you.
(That's racist.)
1B) The Rule of Law is not being applied equally but rather quite selectively as you can see here and here.
There are currently over 7000 standing destruction orders on illegal Arab construction in Judea/Samaria, that have not been and are not being enforced.
Again, in the name of the Rule of Law, why is Peace Now (or you) not demanding equal enforcement (or any enforcement for that matter)?
(That's racist.)
1C) On the legal side, the answer to that is that in Judea/Samaria there is no Rule of Law or even an assumption of jurisdiction. The government has purposely left the law vague and undefined for political reasons.
As you can see, the HCJ itself claims it really doesn’t has the right to apply Israeli law in the territories, but rather it falls solely under the military administration (which normally plays a significant role along with various civil authorities in deciding what constitutes a legal settlement), but it then decides that it has the right to selectively enforce the law on Israelis, but apparently only so far as to take those rights away for “political or security” benefits.
It is a very disconcerting document that clearly shows how convoluted, contradictory, and confused our Left-leaning Judiciary can choose to be when it deliberates in order to come up with the political decision it already decided on before the hearing.
On the other hand, it is a quite wonderful example of typical Israeli Judicial Activism overstepping its bounds (though due to the vacuum the govenment left behind).
1D) It is a rather wide claim to state that a supposedly illegal settlement affects society as a whole, unless you already subscribe to the nonsense that “settlements are obstacles to peace”, because that basically means that Jews living on Jewish owned land are an obstacle to peace - and that is racist.
Are you a racist?
2)
2A) Other than what Israel has created since Oslo, there never was a Palestinian Government/Entity in the Middle East to make it Palestinian Sovereign Land (except perhaps for occupied Jordan). Nor is it occupied according to the Geneva convention (despite the HJC's decisive turn-around in order to implement the disengagement) as there was no former high sovereign power to take occupancy from. This has simply become a politicized/propaganda term. The land is at best disputed, and even that is a fair question.
2b) And, as point of fact, as the Sovereign nation controlling Judea and Samaria, except for Area A, is still Israel. That would make it Jewish controlled territory. (Israel=The Jewish State).
2C) And finally, if any final or temporary borders are ever established, facts on the ground on both sides will decide ultimate sovereignty – so Jews holding onto the land does and will make it Jewish land.
3)
3A) Now let’s see. Between 30,000-50,000 cars are stolen in Israel annually.
Some 90% of those vehicles end up in the Palestinian Authority – including into the hands of senior members of the Palestinian government.
So if in the past 10 years, some 300,000 stolen cars entered the PA, and the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics claims that there are only 122,000 registered (which does not mean they weren’t stolen) vehicles in the PA. That would mean that approximately 150%-250% of the cars being driven around in the PA are stolen.
So yes, at the flip of a coin (either side), it is highly likely that the truck used to drag around the tortured body of the accused Palestinian collaborator was stolen.
Does that make me a racist? I’m not quite clear what the connection is.
3B) With regard to investigating Peace Now’s motivations, you are accusing me of lying.
If I were rude, I'd simply tell you to go to hell.
But, unfortunately for you, I did check their motivations and intentions (someone else asked as I sat there listening), and their lawyer was quite proud to declare them.
Anyone that is familiar with Peace Now (which is nearly everyone in Israel, but I guess not ignoramuses in Illinois) would recognize that that my statement was quite accurate.
So you are also an ignorant liar.
3C) And finally, racist?
I recognize that we the Jewish Nation are currently at war with much of the Arab/Islamic Nation: politically, ideologically, spiritually, physically and most particularly over our land.
That is recognition of fact of the state of war that we are in, not racism.
It is in fact the official position of the Israeli government.
You chose to throw around the term Racist quite easily.
You've already shown that you think like a racist when it comes to Jewish rights.
You must be projecting.
Go learn your facts and improve your behavior before you even think of posting here again.
(For everyone else, I particularly recommend you read both JerusalemCop and Robert's remarks in the comment section below)
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14 comments:
good going joe! I may post it on my blog, i was just about to write the stolen car facts which is constantly brought to my attention. Stand at ANY tzomat in yehuda or shomron. and compare the models of cars... best place to stand is tzomat gush and by givat asaf..you will see that the cars with the PA plates outnumber israeli cars 4:1 in nicer models...
We are racists! heck zionism is racist! so is being jewish, we are better then the goyim because we are chosen by g-d.
I'm racist... many times i called in the cops or bitachon tachnura tziburit if there was a suspicious arab on the bus.
First thin i was taught in israel "every arab is a chafetz chashud!"
Joe, per jameel's and my father's requests it looks like i am geting a degree in law. Semicha being my BA lets see how long ebay will carry me and then maybe i can work pro bono and drag every arab to court over THEIR "ileagal outposts"
ANY land falling within the boundaries of israel, both the boundaries from G-d + the negev to eliat are eretz yisrael.. as defied as boundaries englargend due to a melchamat mitzva.
Yasher Koach!
Your response was well said, well written and 100% factual...Who's to say what experiences these people have had to make their thought processes go so awry.
He obviously doesn't possess a thorough authentic Jewish history background. Too bad! It's his loss and our tzuris.
Great post Joe.
Someone needs to tell this guy to take his head out the sand and smell what he's been shoveling. Anybody who listened to the Peace Now lawyer talk on the radio last week, heard what he said and Joe's quote is as accurate as can be.
J
To the last anonymous poster. Please erase and repost that, but without the curse words.
You are wrong, oh aclu-breath. The ACLU is not the plaintiff in the case against the National Security Agency ("bush/white house"). The ACLU is the filer of the suit. See, for example, http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/01/17/aclu.nsa/ which names the plaintiffs, none of whom are part of the ACLU.
In a full democracy, if there are no plaintiffs, there is no case. That is a basic part of the democratic legal system. However, if you prefer the systems of government which allows suits to be brought on behalf of no-one, go live in a monarchy or dictatorship. Or Israel --- whichever you prefer.
Robert
HEY JOE,
CAN'T U JUST GET RID OF THE CURSER'S COMMENT IN THE MEANTIME? IT SURE DOESN'T READ WELL ON YOUR SITE!
LOVE YOUR INSIGHTFUL BLOGS! KEEP IT UP!
[bad words edited out edited by joesettler]
Hey Joe. I have an idea, which might be onto something. Maybe you can pass it to people who can do something about it?
Here's the idea. If PeaceNow @!%#$&%# traitors have a legal standing to petition Israeli Supreme Court to demolish/evict "illegal" Jewish construction, then probably any Jewish group can petition the Supreme Court to enforce the demolition orders against 7000 Arab buildings that have demolition orders ALREADY issued against them! It would be might tough to argue in court against equal enforcement of the laws. What do ya think?
To the cursing anon,
Do you know how much time and money that would take to do?
I mentioned that in my comment.
zr: I am so trying to come up with a witty remark to add to your comment, but I'm just not succeeding.
I don't mind the occasional leftwinger visiting and leaving reasonable (polite) comments or questions that deserve an answer(like from the purple parrot for instance, though my answers do tend to upset her for some reason); but when an ignoramous makes inciteful, obnoxious, false, and just plain stupid remarks, I ask myself, do I really want this person to have a platform on my site?
Not as much as you think elchonon. Actually all it would take is ONE good lawyer.
we are better then the goyim because we are chosen by g-d.
Do you really believe this?
j's.s.:
we are better then the goyim because we are chosen by g-d.
The whole concept of the 'chosen people' is very interesting and complicated.
But a comment by more than one of my rabbis in yeshiva made a very strong impression on me.
On of the reasons the Jews received the Torah is because as a people/nation we are very strong, obstinate, determined, (even warrior-like,) etc. ("am kshei oref".
The Jews received the Torah to direct and moderate those attributes.
With the Torah, as a nation we can be the greatest nation in the world ("a light unto the nations") for the good of the world, but without the Torah to properly guide us, those exact same strengths and gifts can drag us down to the exact other end of the moral spectrum.
I don't buy into arguments like that. People are all the same in that we all have the opportunity to be good and to be moral, just as we can choose the opposite position too.
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