16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but what it says is that someone wants to use their kid to pull heartstrings rather that make a rational argument on their own.

Mon Feb 06, 08:20:00 PM 2006

Anonymous said...

I see no problem with both rational and emotional arguments.

They both say the settlers are the good guys.

Mon Feb 06, 09:15:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

Actually we settlers understand the evil actions of the government since the expulsion this summer, and my previous post explains why it happened.

But if someone needs a rational argument as to why it is wrong for policemen to put 15 year old kids sitting on the floor into the hospital or to sexually harass/molest teenage girls, then any emotional argument is going to be wasted on them/you anyway.

Mon Feb 06, 09:43:00 PM 2006

Anonymous said...

these children know on their own why they are protesting

Mon Feb 06, 11:16:00 PM 2006

hashfanatic said...

They're into the whole children as human shields thing, because they are such cowards they can't do their own fighting.

Tue Feb 07, 11:43:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

hf: That's really just a stupid comment.

Wed Feb 08, 01:04:00 AM 2006

JoeSettler said...

The question as to where are the adults is a valid one, as even though adults are present at these protests (and were beaten too), they are not out there in large enough numbers.

Elchonon writes about it here:
http://www.stateofjudea.com/?p=73

and JPost dispels the statement that no adults where there with this:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138622563518&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


But to say that the adults are cowards and using children as human shields is disgusting (and false) beyond belief.

It also clearly indicates that you accept police brutality against its citizens as both expected and acceptable.

Wed Feb 08, 10:19:00 AM 2006

JoeSettler said...

Hey Lipa! We all loved your Abi Meleibt video in Israel.

Thu Feb 09, 08:14:00 AM 2006

hashfanatic said...

No, Joe, that's not true. I do NOT accept police brutality against anyone. I CAN'T, no matter how aggravated I feel inside. The soldiers/security forces/whatever you want to call them know that they are supposed to be holding a higher standard. That goes with being in a place of authority.

I don't think you understand the sense of danger we feel these parents are putting these kids in. In addition, for clarity, there's a big difference between a thirteen-or-fourteen year old girl, and some pissed-off kid who is of age, and held responsible for his actions.

Joe, it's not disgusting to question leaving the decision-making of whether or not to participate in actions that are guaranteed to get worse (I heard rubber bullets will be the next descent into hell).

I'm saying, please don't allow the youngest of these kids to put themselves in the line of fire.

Fri Feb 10, 06:00:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

Adults were at Amona, and they were absolutely not violent, and they also got their heads bashed in.

I've been to plenty of large non-violent protests where I saw non-violent protesters (such as myself) get deliberately assaulted by the police, and the news reported it that we, the protesters, were violent and the police were trying to maintain control of the situation.

Police violence is an epidemic in this country.

I want any and every 13-14 year old girl to be able to freely go to protest without ever having to worry about police violence.

If they get caught acting up let them get arrested, not purposely put in a hospital.


If the police don't fire, there won't be a line of fire to worry about - because that's where the danger comes from.

Sat Feb 11, 08:09:00 PM 2006

Anonymous said...

I have policed several protests. I can say that in every event the violence did NOT start with us. It starts with protesters bent on making us look violent. These people are willing to take a few licks in order to make the covers of the ultra-left media newspapers.

Sometimes it does get out of control, on both sides of this issue, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to keep things in check when there are people out there working hard on creating anarchy!

I won't defend bad police behavior, but come on, some of the so called articles on the internet are laughable at best in regards to their absoulte one sided reporting!

Fri Mar 10, 01:00:00 PM 2006

Anonymous said...

To say police violence is an epidemic in this country is to say; false complaints against police are a good idea.

Yes, there is increased violence within our (police) community. Not all of us are happy about it. Part of that does come from our frustration at people who demand "justice" because they got caught doing something wrong- and wrongfully file a false complaint. I see it almost every week.

Why is it ok that you expect us to deal with the worst this society has to offer, while expecting the men and women to not be affected by it? You ask us to defend your family, but do not support us when we can no longer handle the stress of doing just that?

Imagine walking out of your house every day not knowing if you will see your wife and kids again. Not knowing if your kids will have a good life if you don't come home.

Again, I am not for police acting against that which they swore to uphold. I am just saying, walk a mile in our shoes before you pass judgement.

Fri Mar 10, 01:08:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

You have got to be completely kidding.

First, if you can't handle the stress anymore then you shouldn't be on the job, not taking it out on protesters.

Second, I've been to plenty of protests too and besides getting attacked by the police (while doing and having done absolutely nothing), I and plenty of others have seen the police initiate the violence presumably under orders - and you know what, they also didn't wear name tags and their officers were right there as every policeman openly gives fake names.

If as a policeman you don't recognize that your job is to uphold the law, and not execute judgement then you have a real problem.

Fri Mar 10, 01:18:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

But having witnessed and experienced enough gratuitous police violence and having my close friends witnessing and experiencing similar actions, I find it quite believable when people I don't know (or the newspapers) also report more of the same.

At this point, the burden of proof is on the police that they are innocent, because there is enough video material to show (such as beating up the Chareidi protesters that ran for sanctuary into the shul) that the police feel that violence against already subdued suspects is acceptable police methodology as opposed to simply arresting them.

Again, if this is a result of too much stress then these policemen need therapy and their guns and sticks taken away.

Fri Mar 10, 01:25:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

By the way cliche's like, "Imagine walking out of your house every day not knowing if you will see your wife and kids again. Not knowing if your kids will have a good life if you don't come home." - doesn't really work very well with me.

As someone who has served in a combat unit fighting face to face with terrorists, and works as a volunteer in a related security apparatus, that line really doesn't impress me, nor does it put you in a position where the police can't be judged, nor their actions claimed to be misunderstood or excused.

Fri Mar 10, 02:16:00 PM 2006

JoeSettler said...

http://msmedia.a7.org/arutz7/eng-video/06/mar/perm/amona-arutz7.wmv

Sat Mar 11, 10:59:00 PM 2006

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